James Carville says the economy dominates, but corruption still matters

Carville urges a congressional stock-trading ban and warns on deficits

Economy reporter Rachel Wolfe interviewed James Carville for a Wall Street Journal question-and-answer story filed from New Orleans and published Nov. 3; Carville sat down with the Journal last week to discuss the economy, the election and his views on Democratic Socialists. The 82-year-old was future President Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign manager, though the Journal said he is now often better known as a commentator with sometimes controversial takes. The questions and answers were edited for length and clarity. Carville said his old line was a campaign message rather than a complete description of voter priorities and that he wished people would focus more on corruption.

In a video posted Sunday, Carville said the GOP would view Democratic Rep. Haley Stevens like a “used condom” after she endorsed the Republican Senate candidate in Michigan. The Wall Street Journal called him about the remarks; he said, “The video speaks for itself.”

On voter priorities, Carville said people’s standard of living has always been dominant and, in his view, will remain so, especially during bad economic times. He also said voters care when somebody is stealing and called that always been a paramount issue in politics anywhere. Economic satisfaction, he said, is highly determinative when voters evaluate incumbents. He said he does not think that assessment varies and that the worse economic times become, the more people think about the economy.

Asked what other issues voters were not paying enough attention to, Carville said, “There’s nothing bigger.” He named inequality and corruption, called them “everything,” said it was hard to see those issues get better and argued that corruption is driving inequality. He said opponents of his position also understood that relationship and would say so repeatedly.

The line dates to 34 years earlier, in 1992, when unemployment hovered above 7% and healthcare costs were a persistent worry. Carville, then Bill Clinton’s campaign manager, recalled lying on a couch with a phone to his ear as he uttered “It’s the economy, stupid.” He said the line was never an ad and appeared in a documentary. Speaking about a campaign staffed by smart, highly educated people, he said the effort was for the campaign rather than the public: “Let’s take a deep breath here. We’re about change.” The “economy, stupid” line told those workers not to be too smart and to dumb down the message.

Asked about a recent podcast in which he said he had come to detest the famous line, Carville said his objection was to people who use the quote to say that nothing else matters but the economy, calling that interpretation unfortunate and saying he was pretty sure at the time that he was saying it in context. He called the claim that no one cares about corruption while people care about the cost of living “insane,” and said he was sorry that the quote inspired somebody to make such an idiotic observation.

The healthcare element was central to Carville’s revised message. He said the message that had really changed was “don’t forget healthcare.” He estimated that focus-group participants have heard “I’m one disease away from bankruptcy” a million times, arguing that the economy and healthcare no longer have a hard dividing line.

Asked about frustration among young people and their interest in Democratic socialism, Carville said people who are “at some level” capitalists, a group he said certainly includes himself, have to do a “serious reckoning.” He said the system is not producing, and is not producing very well for most young people. He pointed to homeownership and a four-year college degree as the two commodities young people have been drilled to pursue, then said both look more expensive by day.

On the appeal of the DSA, Carville said Democratic Socialists hate the Democratic Party and advised them to develop their own name. “Why use our name? Think of your own name,” he said. He said that if the party is so bad and corrupt, they should not use its name, and added, “The Clintons and the Obamas and Franklin Roosevelt drug us all in a ditch.”

Asked about Democrats’ economic plan, Carville answered, “Get out of Iran” and called that “plan number one.” He expected the party to vote to raise the minimum wage, do away with tax cuts on incomes over half a million dollars a year, and open more rural hospitals, but said all of those proposals would be vetoed.

Within that agenda, Carville said the first thing Democrats should do is pass a ban on stock trading by members of Congress. He called it easy, said Congress could do it right away and described it as an easy vote that was hugely popular. He said an initial vote would show voters that the party wanted to start on the right foot.

On election outcomes, Carville said he tries to spend as little time as possible predicting them and instead do what he can to affect them. Even so, he called the midterms a favorable Democratic year. He said the difference between 227 seats and 247 seats “is all the difference in the world” and said the scope of the result would require patience.

Carville said the federal deficit matters even though “One day people decided the deficit didn’t matter.” He said he thought the federal government had $5.4 trillion in receipts and $7.4 trillion in outlays this fiscal year, describing a two-trillion-dollar gap between spending and revenue. “These things are not a problem until they become a problem, and then it’s too late,” he said. He acknowledged that large deficits are what one is supposed to run during the pandemic and said that was why they exist, but warned, “I think it’s just going to blow up on us.”

The Wall Street Journal’s closing identification described Wolfe as an economy reporter whose stories focus on the ways American consumers shape the economy and how the economy shapes people’s lives. She writes frequently about the effects of inflation, changing demographics and societal shifts across the country. From her perch in New Orleans, she has also reported on natural disasters, the big business of Mardi Gras and her neighborhood peacock, Mr. P. Previously, she covered consumer trends in the Journal’s Life & Work bureau and edited the gear and gadgets section for the Off Duty weekend features section. Wolfe is a graduate of Northwestern’s Medill School of Journalism.